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Les Paul experts - is this a re-finish?
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Author:  Bosco Birdswood [ Sat Aug 08, 2020 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Les Paul experts - is this a re-finish?
Hi Brains Trust,

A good friend just took delivery of a 2012 Gibson Les Paul Traditional Pro Split Coil Gold Top. He noticed that one of the machine heads was mounted a bit loose so tried tightening the screw and it turned continuously, as did all the others. They look to be the original stock units so this suggests to me they’ve been off the guitar and carelessly refitted (probably with a drill driver...). The finish on the back is a dark translucent sort of reddy plumb colour. My immediate suspicion is a headstock repair but you can see the grain through the finish and it doesn’t show signs of this. BUT there is black paint on the truss rod nut and washer and on the string nut if you look closely. Are these usually in place when the headstock is being painted black in the factory? The other thing that rouses suspicion for me is the lighter colouring found in the cavities. Do you reckon I’m right in saying this has had a minor headstock repair and re-finish in darker lacquer to mask this, or is this just sloppy Gibson finishing from 2012?

One last thing - when my friend adjusted the truss rod the black paint flaked off. So either it’s a re-fin or nobody has adjusted the truss rod in 8 years...

Here’s some photos:Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


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Author:  Chris Pile [ Sat Aug 08, 2020 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Les Paul experts - is this a re-finish?
It's really hard to tell from your pix.... Can you get some different angles in focus?
Author:  Bosco Birdswood [ Sun Aug 09, 2020 4:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Les Paul experts - is this a re-finish?
Chris Pile wrote:
It's really hard to tell from your pix.... Can you get some different angles in focus?

Image
Image
Not sure if these will be of any further use. These are the only ones he has sent me


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Author:  Chris Pile [ Sun Aug 09, 2020 9:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Les Paul experts - is this a re-finish?
Well, the peghead face shows no signs of repair or touch-up that I can discern.
As for the back - I reserve judgment.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Les Paul experts - is this a re-finish?
That knife edge nut sure is wrong. You sure this is not a fake?
Author:  Tim Mullin [ Sun Aug 09, 2020 10:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Les Paul experts - is this a re-finish?
I don’t think you can say one way or another, based on these photos. An in-person examination should settle it.

Paint on the truss rod nut is rather common on Gibson instruments. Yes, the fact that the paint flaked off suggests it was never adjusted 8 years post factory, but that’s also pretty common.

As for the tuning machines, seems certain someone overtightened the screws. Maybe in the factory, but my guess the original owner got over-zealous with tightening everything in sight.

As for being fake, I rather doubt it. I’ve seen plenty of fakes (some rather nice guitars), but never with a one-way Gibson rod. Certainly someone thought the nut could be improved with a file — and got carried away.

I think you and your friend need to meet — appropriately masked and distanced. To hide a break repair with a semi-transparent finish takes a lot of skill. There is usually some evidence.


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Author:  Freeman [ Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Les Paul experts - is this a re-finish?
Bosco Birdswood wrote:

One last thing - when my friend adjusted the truss rod the black paint flaked off. So either it’s a re-fin or nobody has adjusted the truss rod in 8 years...



I had a fairly recent LP that still had finish on the truss rod nut which tells me it was not adjusted at the factory. Funny, since the case had the quality control check list card and that was checked off. This is a 2017 model, the nut is as shipped from the factory. My friend was complaining about the action and asked me to look at it.

Attachment:
IMG_3856.JPG


The other thing that I question about yours is the locking tuners. Did Gibson do those?
Author:  Bosco Birdswood [ Mon Aug 10, 2020 8:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Les Paul experts - is this a re-finish?
My mate dropped the guitar into his local reputable store and the queries the following areas circled in these photos. Looking at these I’m sure it’s had work. Very unusual to rub through the finish on the headstock from playing and I doubt even Gibson QC would have let this out the door!

No question of it being fake btw. It’s definitely real. Image
Image
Image


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Author:  Chris Pile [ Mon Aug 10, 2020 9:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Les Paul experts - is this a re-finish?
OK, so it has been repaired.
Author:  Bosco Birdswood [ Mon Aug 10, 2020 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Les Paul experts - is this a re-finish?
Chris Pile wrote:
OK, so it has been repaired.

I think so


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Author:  jfmckenna [ Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Les Paul experts - is this a re-finish?
You night be surprised at what Gibson lets out the door. It could have been a cracked head stock that was re-sprayed.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Les Paul experts - is this a re-finish?
Quote:
You night be surprised at what Gibson lets out the door. It could have been a cracked head stock that was re-sprayed.


Not likely. If you make statements like that, provide proof - not opinion.
Author:  jfmckenna [ Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Les Paul experts - is this a re-finish?
Chris Pile wrote:
Quote:
You night be surprised at what Gibson lets out the door. It could have been a cracked head stock that was re-sprayed.


Not likely. If you make statements like that, provide proof - not opinion.


The proof I have was from a friend who worked as an inspector in the Bozeman factory who ended up quitting a job he loved becasue he was pressure to release guitars that did not pass his inspection. And having worked in shops who were Gibson dealers I saw plenty of horrid examples on them. Granted that was in the 90's. But kind of like owning an American car built in the 70's it leaves a bad taste in the mouth.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Les Paul experts - is this a re-finish?
So you have 2nd and 3rd hand proof.... Right.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Wed Aug 12, 2020 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Les Paul experts - is this a re-finish?
Sounds like he was describing 2nd and 1st hand observations not 2nd and 3rd.
Author:  Bosco Birdswood [ Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Les Paul experts - is this a re-finish?
Anyway, going back to the original topic if I may... the seller on Reverb has agreed to do a full refund (which I take as a complete admission incidentally!) so the guitar is going back. The thing that really bugged my friend was that there was a step where the colour met the binding - another likely indicator that the binding had been taped up and the back over-sprayed. I know you can get that on Bursts etc but that's from 50 years of ageing!
Author:  jfmckenna [ Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Les Paul experts - is this a re-finish?
Sounds like ya got it all worked out. Plenty of other Paul's out there for sale I'm sure.
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